Havanna-syndromet

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dann
Inlägg: 1964
Blev medlem: sön 24 maj 2020, 17:18

Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av dann » fre 23 jul 2021, 17:00

I have been following this story since September, 2017, and so has SVT.se.
They picked up on it again today:
– Man har tittat på olika möjligheter, om det kan vara kemiskt, biologiskt eller psykologiskt krigföring men även mikrovågsvapen, som verkar vara den mest troliga anledningen, säger Tomas Hurtig, forskningsledare på Totalförsvarets forskningsinstitut och expert på mikrovågsvapen.
Flera amerikanska diplomater drabbad av mystiska symptom (SVT, July 23, 2021)
Rapport: Radiovågor anses ha gjort amerikanska diplomater sjuka (SVT, Dec. 6, 2020)
Forskare: Mikrovågsvapen har använts mot USA-ambassader (SVT, Sep. 15, 2018-Jan, 7, 2019)
Forskare: Syrsor bakom mystiska Kuba-ljud (SVT, Jan. 7, 2019)
Ljudet som gav amerikaner på Kuba skador ska analyseras (SVT, Oct. 13, 2017-Sep. 15, 2018)
Donald Trump: Kuba är ansvarigt för ljudattackerna (SVT, Oct. 17, 2017)
USA kastar ut 15 kubanska diplomater (SVT, Oct. 3-13, 2017)
Ljudet som gav amerikaner på Kuba skador ska analyseras (SVT, Oct. 13, 2017-Sep. 15, 2018)
Mystiska hörselskador på Kuba-ambassad (SVT, Aug. 11-Oct. 17, 2017)

However, today's story makes me wonder what has made "Tomas Hurtig, forskningsledare på Totalförsvarets forskningsinstitut och expert på mikrovågsvapen," change his mind about them:
Men teorin om mikrovågsvapen som används mot människor är kontroversiell och vissa ser det som rena science fiction-fantasier.
– Det krävs en enorm effekt. Enorma antenner eller att man varit väldigt nära. Man kan inte heller skicka mikrovågar riktade som en laserstråle, säger Tomas Hurtig vid Totalförsvarets forskningsinstitut, FOI.

Kan koka ögonen
Vid en av incidenterna i Havanna noterade en hustru till en av de amerikanska diplomaterna att en skåpbil lämnade platsen i hög fart efter att ljudet hördes. Det spekulas i att en antenn stor nog teoretiskt skulle kunnat ha gömmas i den.
Men enligt Tomas Hurtig skulle då helt andra skador uppstå.
– Om man bestrålar människor så kraftigt är det ögonen som ligger sämst till. Man skulle helt enkelt koka ögonen på folk, säger Tomas Hurtig.
(...)
Vilka som ligger bakom de misstänkta mikrovågsattackerna vet man inte.
– Det är väldigt svårt att säga, för om man blir utsatt för mikrovågsattack så lämnas ju inga spår. Det finns inga kulor eller liknande som man kan titta på. Det är nästan så att man behöver ta dem på bar gärning, säger Tomas Hurtig.
Forskare: Mikrovågsvapen har använts mot USA-ambassader (SVT, Sep. 15, 2018-Jan. 17, 2019)
How can the eye-boiling microwave weapon suddenly have become "den mest troliga anledningen"?
I am just an amateur, but I would consider hard boiled eyeballs to be a tell-tale sign that something extraordinary had occurred ...

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pwm
Inlägg: 11530
Blev medlem: tis 30 nov 2004, 09:06
Ort: Göteborg
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Re: Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av pwm » fre 23 jul 2021, 20:55


dann
Inlägg: 1964
Blev medlem: sön 24 maj 2020, 17:18

Re: Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av dann » lör 24 jul 2021, 11:50

Thank you!
I was trying to find an earlier thread about this theme, but I was looking in the wrong subforum.

Too bad that the discussion stopped after AP had released a recoding of the alleged sonic attacks, What Americans Heard in Cuba Attacks: The Sound (AP on YouTube, Oct. 12, 2017), but before a scientific study of the sound revealed that "Ljudattackerna" mot diplomater på Kuba were nothing but crickets:
But a study by two biologists assessed a purported recording of the noise and said it matched the mating song of the Indies short-tailed cricket found around the Caribbean.
Cuban crickets, not weapon, heard by ill US diplomats: study (phys.org, Jan. 7, 2019)
For Fernando Montealegre-Zapata, a professor of sensory biology at the University of Lincoln in the UK, the sound reminded him of the crickets he collected as a child, according to The Guardian. So he and Stubbs searched a database of insect sounds to see if any matched the tape from the AP.
The Indies short-tailed cricket, Anurogryllus celerinictus, was close, but not a perfect fit. Perhaps, they reasoned, it was because the Cuban tape was made indoors, while the recording in the database came from outdoors. When the scientists played the cricket call from the database in a room to capture possible echoes that might have occurred when the Cuban sound was taped, the sound features were more aligned with those of the “sonic attack” recording.
“The paper shows how the cricket’s song could, when echoes to be expected in an indoor setting are taken into account, produce sounds strikingly, and quantitatively, similar to that provided by the AP,” Gerald Pollack, who studies sensory biology at McGill University in Montreal, tells The Guardian. “I find this a completely plausible explanation.”
Recording of “Sonic Attack” in Cuba Was Crickets: Scientists (The Scientist, Jan. 7, 2019)
But at that point, the political establishment had become so invested in the idea of an attack that they could not give up on it.

I can recommend the book Havana Syndrome: Mass Psychogenic Illness and the Real Story Behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria by Robert W. Baloh and Robert E. Bartholomew.

Canada tackled the 'syndrome' in a very different way than the USA, which is probably the reason why it has now spread to U.S. embassy staff and CIA agents all over the world, the two most recent places the White House and Vienna! Unlike the USA, Canada didn't encourage the idea that embassy staff and their families were under attack. The USA told people to be aware of attacks and report any symptoms, which is the very worst thing you can do when a new case of mass psychogenic illness is spreading.
Patient Zero in Havana was a senior CIA agent, who not only spread the rumor among his American colleagues but also told his Canadian neighbors that they should be on the lookout for weird sounds indicating an attack.

Robert E. Bartholomew is a well-known skeptic. You can find several of his articles about the 'Havana syndrome' in particular and about mass psychogenic illness/mass hysteria online. We have one of his articles on Skeptica.dk: Massehysteri: en skeptikers guide

dann
Inlägg: 1964
Blev medlem: sön 24 maj 2020, 17:18

Re: Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av dann » sön 25 jul 2021, 11:24

The most recent journalistic investigation of the 'Havana syndrome' is an article in The New Yorker, July 16, 2021. I recommend it.

dann
Inlägg: 1964
Blev medlem: sön 24 maj 2020, 17:18

Re: Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av dann » tis 27 jul 2021, 13:43

Excellent new article based mainly on Robert E. Bartholomew and Robert Baloh, authors of Havana Syndrome: Mass Psychogenic Illness and the Real Story Behind the Embassy Mystery and Hysteria:
“If you look at the 2018 JAMA study — even before it was published, information was leaked to the press that many of the patients had mysterious white matter tract changes in their brains,” explains Bartholomew. (“White matter” refers to areas of the central nervous system made up of tracts. It affects learning and brain functions, and coordinates communications between different regions of the brain.) “However, when the study was published, only three had white matter tract changes — two were mild and one was moderate. This is not unusual. If you randomly picked 21 people from the streets of New York or Havana, you would have a similar breakdown, because white matter tract changes are common in everything from depression, to dementia, to normal aging.”
What Is ‘Havana Syndrome’ and Why Is it Making Americans Sick? (KCM.com, July 26, 2021)

dann
Inlägg: 1964
Blev medlem: sön 24 maj 2020, 17:18

Re: Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av dann » tor 29 jul 2021, 21:48

Ett hundratal CIA-anställda bland de insjuknade
Bland de insjuknade finns även ett hundratal CIA-anställda och USA misstänker att en illvillig, främmande makt ligger bakom sjukdomsfallen genom attacker med mikrovågor eller annan teknologi.
Nu har CIA:s chef, William Burns, som utnämnts av president Joe Biden och är den första personen med diplomatbakgrund att inneha posten, att man gör en kraftsamling för att utröna orsaken till Havannasyndromet och vilka som skulle kunna ligga bakom.
Bland annat har han utsett en CIA-tjänsteman som spårade upp terroristen Usama bin Ladin, terroristen bakom 11 september-attackerna, till att leda styrkan där det en stor grupp medicinska experter ingår.
CIA-bossen misstänker Ryssland för syndromet (Expressen, July 29, 2021)
Not much is new in this article, but it is a good example of one thing that has changed since the world first heard about this: There is no longer an attempt to stick to the fiction that the people who fell ill with the 'Havana syndrome' were diplomats.

It is unfortunate that the CIA will be investigating the case since the agency has a vested interest in the outcome: No smoking gun or any gun at all or even the tiniest ray from a directed microwave weapon has been found, but it is nevertheless doubtful that mass psychogenic illness will be accepted as the explanation even though it was what the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit concluded in 2017-18.

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Johannes
Inlägg: 4556
Blev medlem: tis 30 nov 2004, 14:31

Re: Havanna-syndromet

Inlägg av Johannes » mån 09 aug 2021, 14:12

Om det redan finns en tråd i ämnet och man blir anvisad den är det meningen att fortsatt postande ska ske i originaltråden.

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